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Bad Implementations of Otherwise Good Mechanics Anonymous 01/30/2020 (Thu) 20:00:01 No.13455
I don't think that most mechanics that are employed by games are inherently bad, but it is apparent that most developers have little concern as to how functional they are while in game. By implementation, I don't mean that the mechanic itself is flawed specifically or in a general sense, but the method of interacting with it or how its used or unused by developers. Hunger systems being nothing but burden, broken control schemes, anything that makes the game frustrating because you understand that it has the potential to be good. A more specific example would be Starfox Zero, which uses both the television and Wii U gamepad to play with the television showing a third person view and the gamepad showing a first person view. The television reticle is offset for the purpose of forcing players to look at the gamepad to aim instead of adjusting missions in a way that it compliments both camera angles. It's purposefully broken in an attempt to create something that would otherwise be difficult to accomplish without a second screen.
I got shit tons of examples for this but the freshest one in my mind is Sacred Gold's spell/ability system. Sacred is a diablo like game but one major difference it has over the contemporaneous is that instead of having mana, your spells are on a cooldown and instead of using skill points gained by levelling up to unlock them you consume runes to raise their level with the trade off being higher level spells having a larger cooldown. Its a pretty neat system where you don't need to constantly chug mana potions just to be useful and you have access to all of your class's spells instead of dumping all your points into a single spell and spamming that for 60 hours. There are some really glaring flaws with the system which kneecap most of its positives. Firstly theres no way to respec so if you end up eating 100 runes of a single spell you'll end up with a spell that may one shot everything in your difficulty but you can only use it every 10 minutes. You can't even unassign points while leveling up Then you have the rune drop rate. The only way to get runes is for them to drop from enemies. You can convert different types of runes into ones you desire with the help of a runemaster so getting the ones you want isn't the problem. The real issue is the rune drop rate is associated to your character and it involves how many runes you have consumed with more runes consumed=less runes dropped. What this means is that you're never going to want to level up spells you don't use and you won't want to use spells which you haven't leveled up so you're back at square one with leveling a few spells and spamming them over 60 hours. Finally you have the separation of spells. Spells(referred to as combat arts in the game) are divided in two broad categories, Mental and Physical. Some characters are exclusively physical or mental art users while some have a mixture of both. Different type of spells have different stats and skills associated with their regeneration(cooldown reduction) so for a pure mage you want to dump all your points into Mental Regeneration while as a warrior you don't even want to touch Mental Regeneration. The problem with this is that Physical Regeneration also increases your max health while Mental Regeneration increases your spell damage and resistances by a negligible amount. Then theres also the fact that Physical spells have lower cooldown and use your weapon damage in their damage formula making them scale with gear while for Mental spells you have to eat more runes and level up the attributes and skills to keep the cooldown low.
That could be applied to pretty much any high concept/low delivery game. Take Minecraft as an example: >hunger system >trading system >combat system >transportation >crafting and much more. What matters is the implementation and the thought put into the mechanic as well as its interaction with other mechanics.
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There's this idea that a lot of open world games have is to spread the content all over the map as if there's no other reason to explore portions of it later. Here's an image, probably only partial, of the in-game map from Assassin's Creed Unity. The fact that there's all this to do isn't a terrible issue, but putting it all on the map like this is such an eyesore and makes one less inclined to complete the content. The worst thing is that there already exists places where content can be centralized in the form of taverns that you can renovate. Besides contributing to a static income that can be collected at the Assassin headquarters, these hubs are essentially set pieces you will never revisit other than to complete the three or four quests it offers. I imagine a system free of this godawful map. Every single quest in a district, whether its an assassination, murder mystery, district quest, co-op, whatever you want, are all routed to these buildings. To find the building, you wouldn't follow a way point, but each renovated building would emit smoke visible from almost every vantage point on the map. There would be three colors: >blue: the tavern within your current district (only on active quests) >red: quests available at that tavern >white: no quests at that tavern Additionally, I'd get rid of being able to activate quests from the pause menu and changing your gear within the pause menu because it's redundant and takes you out of the game. Stupid design decision. The gear stuff takes away a lot of planning that you'd otherwise do. There's no commitment you have to make to a certain style as you can change it on the fly despite their attempt at trying to diversify things for coop. You'll see it in different ways depending on the setting of games, but there are more pleasing ways to do open-world games rather than have these content dump. The sequel Origins does something like this where, in the postgame, if you missed quests, you will get an Assassin Bureau that tells you of the things you can still do, so the franchise has somewhat evolved. I'll also say this quickly. The coop system they offered is pure shit. No invitations unless they're a Uplay friend, no reason to behave cohesively at all as reward is individual, minimal difference between players, and the netcode is a mess. >>13465 Are there any mods that balance this out? The issues you bring up with seem like they can be easily fixed.
>>13483 With some exceptions Open World is shit. Better to do a series of connected mini-open-world missions where you have defined goals but can approach them how you like. A Crysis/Far Cry 1 approach you could maybe claim even games like Thief 1 and 2 where you have a map and tools but are left to your own devices within that.
>>13465 >Sacred is a diablo like game Diablo or Diablo II?
>>13533 Open world really isn't a terrible thing, it's just that the way it needs multiple models and patterns all over a large map. Continuing with Unity, it has a decent parkour model and the design of the world is interesting enough. The biggest gripe is gameplay balancing. Enemies stop becoming a major threat unless you get into a particularly sticky situation and the AI is so dumb that it never creates any unique situations. The AI should be able to scale with the world as there are only a few unique areas in the game that would require extra scripting. World design is one of the highlights of ACU and probably one of the best worlds made in terms of authenticity. It lacks color, but the geometry is sound. It's possible to enter some buildings and sewers which is a massive improvement over many open world games of its size, but there certainly could have been a lot more.
>>13483 >Are there any mods that balance this out? The issues you bring up with seem like they can be easily fixed. Apart from respecing the other issues were mostly fixed in the game's sequel. The sequel was also ended up being more moddable than the original so most of the community just moved to that. The way people dealt with these issues back in the day was by using character editors and inventory editors. There was no such thing as battle.net for this game so cheating was of no consequence. >>13534 Its closer to Diablo 2 with rigid classes so you can't have a gladiator which can cast fireball but its not randomly generated. The world map is pretty big and there are quests peppered throughout it with some of them even having multiple outcomes.
>>13455 BotW has that awful durability system of course, but the thing that irritates me about it the most is that the weapon distribution is set up in a way that encourages using fast travel. The way I felt BotW should have been set up is that you’re not supposed to look back. Fast travel should have been, and I cannot stress this enough, extremely limited if implemented at all. That would make things like camping far more useful.
>>13455 Hunger in Minecraft is the worst, it's the perfect fit for the game but holy fuck it's annoying to have to eat every 12 seconds and conjure a stack of 700 steak before you can properly to explore. Even mods don't really attempt to fix this except for removing the mechanic altogether.
>>13736 I think what you're looking for is "AppleCore." I know I saw a mod that lets you adjust how hunger works.
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For the love of Christ, can anyone explain to me these awful interfaces? It's one of the major reasons why I can't stand S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or any of the ARMA games.
>>13794 Tarkov's a garbage scam and arma's "realistic", but what's wrong with stalker's? It's just a bog-standard Diablo grid.
>>13483 >I imagine a system free of this godawful map. Every single quest in a district, whether its an assassination, murder mystery, district quest, co-op, whatever you want, are all routed to these buildings. To find the building, you wouldn't follow a way point, but each renovated building would emit smoke visible from almost every vantage point on the map. There would be three colors: So... kind of like the system in Assasin Creed 1 which people didn't really like because it felt fucking stupid?
>>13794 Inventory in video games is usually just fucking terrible from what I've played of it. Yeah it is fun to manage it for a bit but then it just starts getting fucking annoying. Weight mechanics are probably my biggest gripe with all of this shit, I prefer a fucking Diablo grid because at the very least I can play around with solving something akin to logic puzzle in exchange for getting more items.
>>13800 Inventory management is just such a pain in the ass to begin with. Having every single item on the screen with no sort of auto-organization or grouping and hard to identify icons does not help that.
what I don't understand is why inventory in video games is usually on a 2d plane and not in a 3d box.
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Fighting games are full of these. >Omen of Sorrow Released in 2019 for PS4 and the Tencent Games Store, Omen of Sorrow is a fighting game based on public domain characters from classic European literature like Dracula, Dr. Jekyll, Archangel Michael, etc. The game also features a mechanic called "blessed." Once your character is blessed, he can temporarily cancel special moves into special moves with total freedom. The intention is that you build up to being blessed over the course of a round or game, then use it as a finishing blow against your opponent. Unfortunately, because there are no restrictions this means three things: 1) There are many infinites for every character. 2) The infinites are boring and easy, and do very little damage. 3) The timer for blessed lasts way too long, so you can be stuck in a combo for a very long time. It sounds neat on paper, but as soon as I saw the werewolf character do a simple punch > punch > downward claw > upward claw and loop the downward and upward claws infinitely, I knew there was a problem. I normally like mechanics that give players total freedom, like Street Fighter Alpha 2's custom combo system, but the devs in OoS fumbled it.
>>13483 >>13552 >Assassin's Creed Unity Did you write pic related, by any chance? I always find it interesting to learn how close to greatness AC:Unity was.
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>>13811 >Archangel Michael
>>13814 Sorry, that's Archangel Gabriel. He looks more like an angry teenager than an archangel so I didn't remember him clearly.
>>13813 Yes. I'm Unity Autist.
>>13818 Oh, but not the Unity Autist that posts his copypasta that praises the horrible story.
World Tendency from Demon's Souls.
>>13989 Yes, but why?
>>13989 I never played Demon's Souls. What is it?
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In hindsight I don't think implementing 3v3 combat and summons that appear on the battlefield was a bad idea. The problem with the latter is that when they show up they pretty much just become stage hazards that cannot be harmed and they make a visually chaotic game even worse. And the former could have been fine if they hadn't raped character customization, not only removing some movesets from characters but also getting rid of items and leveling entirely, and making so you could ONLY play 3v3 >you can actually 1v1 in NT Oh, that does make it bet- >only against bots >if you wanted to fight against a friend you'll either have to find 4 other chuckle fucks to play this shit or deal with worthless fucking bots GG, Team Ninja why did they have to fuck it up
>>13998 Its a really shitty system that some insane lunatic designed. Each level of the game has a variable associated to it going from +3 to -4 with +3 being pure white tendency and -4 being pure black. There are events in the levels which only occur when the tendency is pure white and there are events which occur when its pure black. These events range from enemy spawns which are the only way to farm the rarer upgrade materials to pathways getting unlocked. Pure White tendency also makes the game easier while Pure black tendency makes enemies harder and more rewarding. Dying in human form shifts you to Black tendency but the only way to get to White tendency is to kill one time spawning NPCs. Then theres the fact that if you're online all your changes to world tendency go down the drain the moment you stop playing.
>>14000 Just to clarify, it wasn't that the 3v3 was bad because of the changes they made, the the changes they made were bad BECAUSE they made it 3v3; built the entire game around it and destroyed the game as a result- the game limps on only because of all the fags who keep buying all the DLC for it If you want another example of what I mean then look no further than BlazBlue Cross Tag; they completely casualized all the characters to make them work in a 2v2 instead of keeping all their movesets and balancing from there.
Body part damage in any game except monster hunter and mechwarrior. Dark souls 3 are the worst at this. The only body part damage is damage to the ass of Dancer(one of bosses), if you hit her ass it wiggles around. It is a good ass, but such fucking misuse of a mechanic. But than again, every boss is a bug humanoid so this would be worthless. At least sometimes they have headshots for some reason. >>13998 Game has 4 worlds+hub. If you die in human form in one world 10 times the world will shift to slightly different and supposedly harder mode. With some exclusive stuff in it. It meant that to get some stuff you need to kill yourself over and over. It was intended to make game harder for bad players, but in the end it did nothing except being somewhat obscure mechanic. Technically something similar was in planescape torment. If you die, in the end of the game a shadow will await you for each death. This could be a cool inclusion in ending or just populating the world of shadows of you, like in roguelikes with morgue where you can meet your previous incarnations/their graves.
>>14004 >The only body part damage is damage to the ass of Dancer(one of bosses), if you hit her ass it wiggles around. It is a good ass, but such fucking misuse of a mechanic. It's funny, not meant to be taken seriously.
>>14004 >The only body part damage is damage to the ass of Dancer Right. Except a dozen of other examples of body part damage in that game. Curse-Rotted Greatwood, High Lord Wolnir, and Deacons of the Deep require weakpoint destruction to beat, Yhorm the Giant takes normal damage if you shoot him in the face, Lothric can be hit when he's on Lorian's back, Stray Demon's legs can be destroyed, headshots deal extra damage, melee hits on the heads of some large creatures deal extra damage, Harald Legion knights take extra damage from plunging attacks, Salyvahn's beasts drop to the ground and start flailing around if you stun&riposte them. >Body part damage in any game except monster hunter and mechwarrior I know at least Dragon's Dogma and I'm not even into action games.
>>14026 >Deacons of the Deep require weakpoint destruction to beat Its just a bunch of zombies with zombie pope spawning later. Wolnir is just a boss with 3 completely separate parts, you need to attack 2 on the only available parts to kill him. Great fucking implementation, monster has 2 hands instead of one, attack them! Its totally exactly the same and good as in monster hunter where every fucking enemy has 10 different body parts with different damage resistances on them, plus a head which is often weak to stuns, plus every body part has stagger value, plus most body parts can break and change resistances plus you often can cut tails, break spikes/horns to lower danger of enemy plus most enemies have enrages state with different resistances and sometimes a way to break them out of it, plus sharpness of the weapon and hardness of the part will determine if weapon will simply bounce off, plus some monsters can grow parts back/cover themselves in armor. Compare these 2 charts and say that they are exactly the same and just as good. >Salyvahn's beasts drop to the ground and start flailing around if you stun&riposte them >Harald Legion knights take extra damage from plunging attacks >body part damage

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